This is a follow on from the International Caps Part 1 post.
My best estimate of Irish ultimate's top 5 all time most capped players (at full international open and women's ultimate on grass):
Open
1. BB: 52 caps
2. Doyler: 39 caps
3. Podge 33 caps
=3. Marko: 33 caps
5. Dom: 32 caps
Women
2. Doyler: 39 caps
3. Podge 33 caps
=3. Marko: 33 caps
5. Dom: 32 caps
Women
1. Sparky: 40
=1. SJ: 40
3. Yiv: 39
=3. Fi: 39
5 Dee: 32
3. Yiv: 39
=3. Fi: 39
5 Dee: 32
(My main source was the player directory of the national teams of ultimate database for the Irish open team and the Irish women's team. Hence the same caveats apply as with the national teams of ultimate site, regarding possible errors due to missed games through injury and the like. Possibly there's also just someone else that I forgot to check. There's also a possibility in the back of my mind that there was another national team tournament in 2008, in preparation for worlds, but I can't find any details).
Looking at those lists, I had thought it would be closer at the top of the open team list, but there really is no contest for first place in the open team. I think Brian's total of 52 caps means he's been a part of every single full international game that the Irish open team has ever played. An incredible record!
Unsolicited advice about getting on the Irish open team 2011
Last April, Brian sent an email to the Pookas list entitled "unsolicited advice about getting on the Irish open team 2011". He knows more than anybody else about getting on the Irish open team. Take his advice! (look it up yourself).
Mixed Division
I've not done any mixed division analysis. The record for the most mixed team caps would be held jointly by the entire mixed team from 2000. If an all-division caps list were made, the extra mixed division caps could push the likes of Al, JD and Ois further up, but I think Brian would still reign supreme by some distance.
Any comments to ammend / improve the top 5 list are welcome. As are opinions joining in on the discussion of 'caps' in general.
Looking at those lists, I had thought it would be closer at the top of the open team list, but there really is no contest for first place in the open team. I think Brian's total of 52 caps means he's been a part of every single full international game that the Irish open team has ever played. An incredible record!
Unsolicited advice about getting on the Irish open team 2011
Last April, Brian sent an email to the Pookas list entitled "unsolicited advice about getting on the Irish open team 2011". He knows more than anybody else about getting on the Irish open team. Take his advice! (look it up yourself).
Mixed Division
I've not done any mixed division analysis. The record for the most mixed team caps would be held jointly by the entire mixed team from 2000. If an all-division caps list were made, the extra mixed division caps could push the likes of Al, JD and Ois further up, but I think Brian would still reign supreme by some distance.
Any comments to ammend / improve the top 5 list are welcome. As are opinions joining in on the discussion of 'caps' in general.
There was a 6 Nation Tournament in Berlin During the Summer of 2008
ReplyDeleteIreland
Switzerland
Germany
Holland
Finland
Italy
As far as I can remember we played Germany(w), Holland(w), Switzerland(l), Italy(l), Finland(l) and Holland(w) again . These were full internationl teams so there are 6 more caps for the 2008 squad.
I believe Britboy has done some similar work on the total caps, maybe he can throw some light on the subject - I seem to recall that Marko was top of the list pre 2008 tho.
Where does Si Cocking fit on this list?
ReplyDeleteI've been away. Now I'm back.
ReplyDeleteDoyler, thanks for that, I'll update things soon; once I get time. I managed to find the google cache of the post from the open teams blog from that year:
(http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7bUKDZXkfPsJ:wugc2008.blogspot.com/2008/06/6-nations-cup.html+wugc+2008+ireland&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie)
From this it seems that there are only 5 more caps each. Looking at the photos, I'm guessing Pete Forde and Ian French were out for the whole thing? Do you recall? (now obviously I haven't taken injuries into account much, but if this is definitely the case, there's no reason not to).
As for Marko being top pre 2008, I see worlds in 2000 being the difference in favour of BBmacjc and against Marko and yourself up until then. Unless britboy has accounted for some more injury information?
Rory,
I think Si Cocking is well down the list, having only played for Ireland open in worlds 2000 and euros 2003. (of course he would have had club worlds too, but they don't count here).
Hello,
ReplyDeleteWhen the last Ireland cycle came to an end in 2008 it was the end of an era. Now it's different, but until then if you wanted to play competitively, there was only one team doing the same thing. We were the Pookas to being with, then Ireland in 03 and 04, then Paddy Murphy, then finally Ireland in 07 and 08. Now we're past that point, as you would expect and hope for.
Anyway, at the end of the last cycle I compiled the statistics. I'm a bit of a purist, so I only counted full WFDF international games. You can measure it whatever way you want, and I measured it by "super full real-deal timekeepers and fully numbered kit" international caps, doing myself and the team of 2008 out of 6 more appreanaces (2008 was the only year in the five Ireland seasons that we attended another purely nternational tournament). I'm confident I have recalled who missed what through injury, so the following list is pretty much accurate. Wheras I have been on all 5 Ireland teams, I missed 2003 through injury and find myself 2nd on the 'most capped list' to Alan Doyle, who surpassed Marko in 2008.
The top 10 are as follows (in the case of a tie, people are presented in the order in which they debuted, and then alpahbetically if that was at the same time)
1 (37) Alan Doyle
2 (35) BB Mac JC
3 (30) Alan Murray
- (30) Mark Dolan
- (30) Dara Hayes
- (30) Rob Keily
- (30) Cian O'Morain
8 (29) Mark Earley
- (29) Niall Harbourne
10 (28) Dominick Smyth
- (28) Roger Beatty
- (28) JD Coakley
I have the stats for all 51 open players who have played for the Ireland Open team, and all the results the team had also. I'll email them to Seamus and maybe he can stick them somewhere accessable.
BB
Howiyas,
ReplyDeletejust having read through all this, I wondering what your take of caps is on Juniors and U23s caps? Since the latest posts there's been post a world championship tournament in both Juniors and 23s division.
I've heard people in Ireland scoff at some of the aspects of the Junior division. E.g. when deciding who got preference for numbers at 23s, some people said that playing Juniors didn't really count as a cap.
Joking or otherwise, this really got to me and I thought I'd see how people see these divisions in the caps discussion.
Hogi
I've been meaning to get back to this topic for a while. BB Mac JC had sent me the information he had colected. I've not forgotten.
ReplyDeleteHogi,
regarding caps in other divisions; I think the relative value different divisions is quite subjective. I wouldn't count the different divisions on the same list anyway.
If you've played in 13 games for Ireland juniors, you can say you've got 13 ireland junior caps. And if you've played in 8 games for ireland u23s you can say you've got 8 u23 caps.
I think everyone would agree that senior caps (i.e. open/womens/mixed) are the most valuable, after that, it's debatable.
I'd be surprised to hear someone playing under 23s say that "playing Juniors didn't really count". It's all underaged sport afterall, just a different age. And there does come an age where someone has got to say "okay, you're old enough, play senior".
I'm guessing this was just a makey-uppy argument from someone who wanted a particular shirt number.